Friday, June 29, 2007
Chapter 8 - Male Character
Next Shalit talks about male modesty. She defines it as moderating one's sexual activity and generally reserving it for one's beloved. Male modesty is strongly tied to the notion of honor and obligation. Men shouldn't brag about your women. I think she's actually right about this. You really can't be modest when you are running around talking about your latest conquests all the time. A man of honor is someone who respects female modesty (pg 149). Shalit says that twenty years ago you would hold and protect your lovers but today, you would only have a lover to impress the outside world. There certainly are people that love to brag and show off when it comes to sex.
For me courtesy is a big thing. I went to a wedding a few weeks ago. After the reception the newlyweds were walking out to cheers and sparklers. They approach the vehicle they are using to leave the reception and the groom didn't open the door for the bride. I cringed. She actually yelled at him and forced him to walk back around to her side and get the door for her. I often wonder what happened to these basic manners?
-John Johnson
Thursday, June 28, 2007
Chapter Seven – Can modesty be natural?
Jose Luis Iglesias
Tuesday, June 26, 2007
Chapter 6 The Great Deception
This may be one of the first statements in the book that has really made me think...
Has the movement in our culture away from modesty caused a much more hostile environment for females? Is it just that our society has come to grips with the fact that society has changed and we just prefer deal with it than talk about it? Is there any way to change female modesty from what it has become?
Maybe it's just the culture in which we live and the fact that I come from a younger generation, but I think it's a lot harder for me to comprehend and see any shift or really understand the concept of modesty because it has been the way it is for a while. I don't really know of the modesty women of the '50's and '60's because I wasn't around. I dont know how men acted back then either. I only know what I've grown up knowing and experiencing. I think it is and has been,for some time, a fairly modesty-free society. Maybe that is just me.
-Brandon Kinlein
Thursday, June 21, 2007
Chapter 5: Forgiving Modesty
In many ways I agree with this statement. I've had too many friends put all of their time and effort into a guy only to find their world shatter when the relationship ends. Why do many women become so dependent on their partner that they can't imagine life without him? Do men feel this way? Society makes it seem like women are needy,dependent and that guys just don't want the commitment. Maybe I don't understand this dependency to men because I have not been in a serious relationship in a while. I think two people can have a relationship and still have their own separate lives, friends, or something they can call their own. Especially at my age, I think young women have too much to look forward to and not enough time to latch ourselves to some silly boy!
P.S.- Don't get me wrong, I'm all about relationships, just not to the point it becomes an obsession.
-Lindsey Winesburg
Monday, June 18, 2007
Chapter 4: New Perversions
“But we don’t believe in keeping girls safe anymore. We believe that their independence is more important” (Shalit,78).
While I was reading this chapter, the quote above really stood out to me, but I’m not sure if I support or oppose it. I was talking to my friend the other day about women, equality, and etiquettes. We argued about how society has changed women and men. I, being the woman, argued with a hit of Shalit saying that much etiquette has been abandoned because of our changing society; etiquettes such as giving up a sit for lady, not swearing in the presence of a lady, holding a door for lady (men still do these things, but many etiquettes have gone untaught or they have become outdated). He argued that “many of the etiquettes on how men treat women have become outdated because society today teaches women to be strong and independent. There are single moms working jobs and taking care of their kids. There is a woman who has the potential to become the next president. More and more women are getting degrees and working better jobs than men. Women don't 'need' to be taken care of anymore; they can take care of themselves now. Society is very different today than it was when men would give up their seats and open doors for ladies. Society is constantly changing and it always will.” What he said related a lot to the quote above. In this chapter Shalit gives an account of a girl named Kristin that was brutally murdered because of her strong independent nature... that made me question even more, “Are we (women) giving up our safety for independence?”
-Joy Jen
Tuesday, June 12, 2007
Chapter 3 - The Fallout
Next she talks about rape. She mentions a survey among teenagers and throws out some really high percentages. I really find it hard to believe that so many teenagers thought it was ok to have non-concensual sex with a woman, no matter the scenario. Was I raised differently? I'm sure that as soon as I was able to speak I would have answered no to a question like that. She mentions date-rape as well. I'd have to agree that this is a problem. When I was younger and in college I knew guy's that thought this was ok to do, even normal.
Ok I have to comment on the pornography section. There's nothing wrong with a little porno! I can see how women get upset about this, but it really is just a fantasy. If a guy is taking it to far, or it becomes an addiction then yes, there's a problem. I always laugh when I hear guys say something like "Oh she found some porn and says I have to get rid of it or else." I also get a kick out of women that are upset about their s/o's going to a strip club. I bet 90% of guys NEVER act on any desire they feel in a strip club, or when watching porn. I am not shocked by seeing a stripper. I'm not embarrassed by it either. I'm really quite comfortable with it and don't see it as a cultural problem at all.
It's hard for me to comment on the "Girls who can't say no" section. I'm not a girl, and I've never said no. ZING! j/k! I really think it's sad that this section suggests that women cannot say no to sex. They give into it and then feel bad about it later. In my opinion if a women isn't capable of saying no, she shouldn't put herself in that position with a guy. I realize us guys are charming and crafty but if you don't want to have sex then how can you be talked into it? Seems that maybe some women DO want to have sex then just regret it later.
-John Johnson
Thursday, June 7, 2007
Second Chapter - Postmodern Sexual Etiquette
I think that sex is a serious decision in men and women’s lives. When one decides to have sex with someone he or she should know who his or her partner is. The first question that should be answered is: what do you expect from the relationship? If one wants just to have fun, then he or she should not be disappointed if he or she dumps you. However, if you are looking for a serious relationship, here are some ideas on how to minimize errors when choosing a partner. Try to find out more about your partner, his or her values, where he or she comes from, who his or her family is, what his or her life’s plans are. In other words, try to find out if you have something in common with him or her. When we are young we look for new experiences, curiosity, discovering new things and our sexual hormones levels are high. Consequently, we kind of take risks without thinking about what the consequences are going to be. We must acknowledge that the challenges that women face in life are more complicated than those that men do. A woman is more vulnerable because she can get pregnant, and if that happens and the man does not support her, she will have to raise a child on her own. But, I think that it is beautiful to be a woman, because they have the power of seduction, and to me it is good! A man without a woman is an incomplete person. I am not the kind of person who is afraid of having a daughter. By the way, I have a pretty and intelligent five-year old daughter. I disagree with Anne Roiphe when she says that when she saw that her child was a girl she said; “…have to tell her ah, what a terrible and painful process it is to be a woman…”. To be a woman is indeed a challenge, but as parents we must open a channel of communication with our child, and tell her about good and bad choices in life. Then if we understand what is happening in her moment of life we can give her guidance on how to choose the best path.
Jose Luis Iglesias
Monday, June 4, 2007
A Return To Modesty Chapter 1
-Brandon Kinlein